Thought Leadership Interview #12: Seeing the Trees in the Woods: Eloqua’s Steve Woods on What Matters in Marketing

The following innovations have made marketers better: scoring, lead nurturing, marketing automation and lead management.  Whether you like it or not, Eloqua Corp. is one of the reasons we are where we are today.  The company has spent a lot of time and money educating the market, creating a marketing automation install base and helping launch the lead management revolution.  I couldn’t in my right mind do a thought leadership series and not have Eloqua represented.  And by the way, I got a great interview out of it.

The interviewee is Steven Woods, co-founder and CTO of Eloqua.  As you’ll see from this interview, he’s one of the smarter guys in the business and has written great stuff on topics related to demand generation and the current transitions within the marketing profession.  His book, “Digital Body Language,” explores demand generation and the current trends in marketing.  He regularly writes on his blog, which has the same name .

Steven is also deeply involved with the Eloqua user community, with whom he regularly interacts through the discussions on his Eloqua Artisan blog.

This is a GREAT interview worth reading more than once.

1. What are the three trends you see emerging in 2009?

I think the overarching trend is a shift in marketing to thinking of things in terms of a buying process rather than a sales process. This is really fundamental to engaging with today’s buyers as, given the information resources available, they truly are in control of their own buying process. As part of that, we’ll likely see lead scoring begin to evolve a little bit in 2009. Historically, as marketers, we’ve typically used lead scoring to identify when a buyer is ready to engage with sales. This is important, but it’s only one stage of the buying process. Using the same techniques we’ve used in lead scoring – of looking at buyers’ digital body language to understand their level of interest – we’ll now begin to understand exactly where in the overall buying process they are.

Similarly, throughout the year, I believe we’ll continue to see marketers deepen their thinking about lead scoring.  There’s a tendency, for example, when we start thinking about lead scoring, to mash together information on the “who” (right executive, right company, right revenues) with the “how interested” (right activity and interest level).  This doesn’t allow us to differentiate between an uninterested CEO (right “who,” but not interested) from a keenly interested summer intern (wrong “who,” but right level of interest).  Obviously these are very different people, and I think we’ll see a continuation of the trend in marketing to ensure that these two dimensions of lead scoring are looked at separately.

To enable all of this, we’re already seeing a trend toward a clearer emphasis on data management in marketing, which I suspect will only increase throughout 2009.  Marketers realize that to score leads, route leads, personalize communication,or understand market segments, they need clean underlying data – whether on title, industry, revenue or location.  Standardizing and normalizing the data continually, whether it comes from Web forms, lists, uploads or a CRM system, is  quickly becoming a mandate that we’re seeing today’s best marketing leaders give their marketing operations teams.

2. What are the biggest challenges for 2009?

Obviously we’re all experiencing a tough economy. Buyers are more hesitant and more thoughtful. The challenge for today’s marketer is to ensure that potentially good opportunities are not discarded because there isn’t a buying event happening at that very moment. Putting energy into marketing campaigns focused on lead nurturing and mid-funnel activities is critical in order to ensure that you stay top-of-mind until there’s a buying event.

The silver lining of the economic turmoil is that there is less emphasis on the big budget outbound campaigns, so there is more time that can be focused on ensuring that lead nurturing campaigns are well-tuned, data is managed correctly, leads are scored and routed well and a clear analysis picture is in place.

3.  What are  three metrics that B2B marketers should care about and why?

B2B marketing is interesting in that it involves long buying cycles, multiple people and numerous campaign touch points. Although it’s possible to analyze the effect of a marketing campaign on revenue, often the length of the buying cycle makes the analysis nonactionable. Instead, coming to an agreement with sales on an objective definition of a “marketing qualified lead,” and then analyzing marketing efforts against that definition is both relevant to revenue and also very actionable.

With that in place, you have a good base upon which to map the buying phases that are higher in the funnel.  From raw inquiry through to MQL, whether you have one or a few intermediate steps, you have a good structure to analyze.

I always suggest to marketers that they adopt a similar discipline to sales or finance in analyzing and reporting their numbers. If you know the stages in your buying process, you can adopt a “balance sheet” and “income statement” view of the world. What is the current state, or phase of the buying process, of leads in your marketing funnel? That’s a “balance sheet” view. In the last quarter, what motion in the funnel (up or down) have you driven? That’s your “income statement” view. With that discipline in place, you shine a new light on your marketing effectiveness.

4. What are the top oversights marketers are making regarding lead generation?

A lot of marketers are very focused on net new names, whether it’s a new list to be purchased or an initiative to drive new interest. This overlooks the value of existing names in your database. If you focus on the middle of the funnel, with people you already know, and work to understand their interests and communicate to them in a relevant way, you can often drive more revenue more effectively than through a continual focus on net new names.

5. What will you prescribe to marketers to carry out effective lead generation?

First, think in terms of your buyers’ buying process – we’ve talked about that one at length. Second, map your information assets to the phases of the buying process to understand where you offer valuable information and where you need to develop more information assets. Third, set that information free – your prospects will acquire information somewhere, whether from you or from your competitors, so you might as well become the source they trust.

Fourth, don’t be shy about asking for a very small amount of information reciprocity; if you give them a valuable information asset, you can ask for a few pieces of information in exchange.  However, build a modular profile that you can progressively add to over time.  Each time you interact with a prospect, ask two or three questions, no more.  By progressively profiling, and not asking the same questions multiple times, you can build a good set of information on each potential buyer without ever asking them for more than a few pieces of information.

6.  What  three Web 2.0 applications,  cutting-edge technologies or lead generation sources do marketers HAVE to consider to be successful?

Of course, no technology is going to work magic.  There are always a lot of people, processes and content elements to think about when shifting your marketing to be focused on the buyer’s buying process.  However, a good demand generation platform that can provide the right nurturing, score leads across not just “who” but “how interested,” manage your data and provide a good analytics framework.  I would of course recommend Eloqua for that, but everyone should make his or her own decision.

In terms of social media, the social media sources that work differ from business to business, so it’s hard to pick a specific recommendation. The best recommendation is to dive in and begin listening and learning, and evolve your strategy as you know more about where your customers and prospects, as well as influencers in your industry, have conversations. To that end, I would say the simplest way to get started is to begin listening to the online conversations using Twitter and Google blog alerts. From there, if you have knowledge to share with your market, begin writing about it on a blog of your own as well as joining the conversations on other blogs, if only to better understand where the discussions are happening in your industry.  Once you get your feet wet, you’ll quickly be able to see which venues are relevant for your audience, and which aren’t.

7. What do you hope for in B2B sales and marketing for the new year?

I think that marketing is in the middle of an incredible transformation toward becoming a discipline that presents objective metrics to executive teams and boards of directors, in a similar manner to finance, operations and sales.  I think that the ability to truly understand marketing’s affect on the pipeline will also begin to remedy the imbalance in compensation that exists today between great salespeople and great marketers. So, my only hope for the year is that this transition continues at its current pace, and we take some bold steps towards a new way of thinking about the discipline of marketing.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter

If You Can’t Take the Heat, Stay out of the Lead Gen Kitchen

I spent a lot of time on the title for this post, but frankly, I’m not sure if I chose the right one.  Regardless, this topic is near and dear to my heart. My main point is this: In lead  generation, a high percentage of your leads will NOT convert. To survive, you not only need to build a threshold for this but also be able to properly articulate success to  your boss, the CFO, sales and the rest of the organization.

Look, I’m not here to tell you that you can’t optimize. You can.  Conversion rates do go up, but they rarely go past 50 percent.  That means you’ll probably fail much more often than you’ll succeed.  That’s the fact of the business, and it’s OK.  This is one of those issues that falls in the “that’s the way it goes” territory.

To help you feel better, I’m turning to sports analogies. Even the best players in baseball and basketball fail much more than they succeed:

  • Alex Rodriguez, third baseman for the New York Yankees: A-Rod won the 2008 batting title with an average of .324.  That means for every 10 at-bats, he got roughly three hits. If baseball flipped these stats and started tracking an “un-batting average,” which I’ll call an “out-rate”,  he would have a .676 average. Or, for every 10 at-bats, he was out roughly seven times.
  • Lebron James, point forward for the Cleveland Cavaliers: James won the NBA scoring title in 2008.  His field goal percentage was an amazing 48.4; that is, for every 10 shots, he made less than five. Said another way, he missed five out of 10 shots. Put that way, his average doesn’t sound too impressive.

The point is these guys are two of the highest-paid, highest-regarded athletes out there (steroids withstanding for A-Rod) and no one thinks of their misses.  It’s the same for lead gen: You don’t need an amazingly high conversion rate to be extremely successful.

Take the example of the lead gen manager who has a sales manager saying, “These leads suck.”  In this case, the lead gen manager bought 100 leads and the first 20 the sales team called didn’t work.  Sales then gives up and the lead source is a failure, but not for a good reason. Sales’ expectations were simply wrong.

Most organizations I run into convert leads (convert to opportunity) from 3 percent up to about 30 percent.  That means the sales team in the example above could technically call 40 more leads that didn’t work, and the program still wouldn’t be a failure.  If only 10 out of those 100 convert, you’re having a good campaign.

That’s not all that matters, though. You also have to consider the “unconversion rate.” It’s one of the biggest reasons you should:

  • Build a telequalification function: Build a group focused on converting leads.  Sales guys don’t understand 10 percent conversion rates; they only remember the 90 percent that didn’t convert.  The best companies put a buffer between leads and sales.
  • Leverage marketing automation: First, with marketing automation, you give yourself the ability to increase conversion rates as you continue to work leads well beyond the date you have received them.  Second, you can control what actually gets delivered to sales without having to hear it from them.

To net it out:  Learn how to handle failure or you won’t last long in this business. With your “unconvert” threshold built, create processes that protect you from the downward spiral of the “leads suck” perception and set expectations properly with everyone in your organization, including yourself.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter

Thought Leadership Interview #11: Real Man of Genius: David Thompson of Genius.com

I told myself I would move away from the Thought Leadership interview series.  But I met some really smart people and had to get them on The Funnelholic. This interview is with David Thompson, CEO of Genius.com Inc., and it’s full of REALLY good stuff, so my return to the interview series is a success.

Thompson has got chops in the sales and marketing world:

  • Co-author of “Sales 2.0 For Dummies, Executive Edition”
  • Co-host of the sold-out Sales 2.0 Conference
  • Vice president of product marketing before becoming chief marketing officer of WebEx Communications Inc. (before Genius.com) where he helped them go big (really big, if you didn’t know)

Now, he is rocking with Genius.com, a hot marketing and sales 2.0 startup here in the valley.

Here’s the great interview:

1.    What are the three trends you see emerging in 2009?

Wow, that’s a broad question.  I’ll focus on three that are important to our business and the customers we serve:

  • Because of their ability to deliver quick time to value at an affordable cost, SaaS solutions will continue to grow in importance.
  • Marketing automation, which is increasingly aligning sales and marketing teams and driving top line revenue, will see increased adoption.
  • Cloud computing is starting to become part of the business vernacular as more companies look to leverage the Web to conduct and grow business.

2.     What are the biggest challenges for 2009?

Besides the elephant in the room? Obviously everyone is trying to do more with less. Operational efficiency is more important than ever. As I just noted in the previous question, I’m seeing a lot of companies that are looking to increase sales and marketing alignment so they can effectively and quickly nurture prospects and provide quality service to those who are ready to buy. Along with this, vast changes in how people are buying are dictating changes in how sales and marketing approach their customers and prospects. Organizations need to provide the right level of service at the real time. It’s no longer good enough to have the right insight; you must have it at the right time. Speed, deliverability – and ultimately, accountability– are increasingly important.

3.     What are three metrics that B2B marketers should care about and why?

More and more companies are adopting a sales 2.0 strategy that leverages Web 2.0 technologies to sell more, faster.

While B2C vendors have been doing sales 2.0 for a long time now, B2B just beginning to view it as a business imperative. In my book,”Sales 2.0 For Dummies,” I recommend that you measure everything – and online you can and should do just that. As marketers I think we need to be looking at metrics that not only are indicative of marketing success but are indicative of sales success as well. Three good metrics are: open/click-through rates from marketing initiatives, connect rates in which sales has a meaningful interaction with the prospect and the number of leads that convert to qualified opportunities.

4.      What are the top oversights marketers are making regarding lead generation?

We need to move away from the notion of lead generation and toward the concept of lead management. Lead management occurs deeper into the sales funnel where sales and marketing are dynamically engaged with each other to determine which leads need further nurturing and which need immediate follow-up by sales. During the lead life cycle, there can be multiple hand-offs between sales and marketing as the lead goes in and out of the sales cycle.  The trick is to make sure that the right team member is servicing the prospect or customer at the right time.

5.       What will you prescribe to marketers to carry out effective lead generation?

Tagging onto my answer above, solutions that enable effective lead management should be considered. I’ll leave it at that and spare you the product pitch (but Genius.com would be good place to start). Seriously, there are several vendors out there who can help organizations better manage their customer relationships and I list a bunch in my book. They should be considered. Yet, one size does not fit all and companies need to find the right solution for their organization. At Genius.com, we focus on ease of use, real-time sales insight and quick time to value.

6.    What three Web 2.0 applications, cutting-edge technologies, or lead generation sources do marketers HAVE to consider to be successful?

You’ll need tools to attract new prospects, whether that’s through search or prospect database vendors.  While it’s probably not considered “cutting edge,” you should also have a CRM platform to track and manage your leads and prospects. Finally, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention products like ours that enable sales and marketing teams to better connect and serve their qualified prospects.

7.       What do you hope for in B2B sales and marketing for the new year?

Ultimately, I think we all hope that sales and marketing will find a road to greater success.  I believe that starts with better alignment, adopting tools that enable that and a stronger focus on serving the customers that are still out there and ready to buy.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter

Give the People What They Want: Thought Leadership and Lead Gen

Let me get something on record: Buyers want unbiased, smart, educational content.  My sales guy asked me the other day for statistics so he could “prove this to clients.”  I told him, “If you’re trying to learn about something, would you rather watch a documentary or an infomercial?”

So think about it: Do you really need data? Ask yourself the following questions:

  1. When researching a purchase, do you prefer the advice of a neutral expert or the vendor?
  2. Who are you more likely to believe, the neutral expert or the vendor?

I mean come on.  Thought leadership works. Here are some examples:

  1. Brian Carroll: I’ve talked about this guy before and, by the way, he wrote about this very topic on his blog.  Everyone in the business trusts Brian, and there’s a lot to learn from him. Here’s what I’ve noticed about his approach:
    • He basically talks about every form of lead gen.  Even areas in which his company does not specialize.
    • He rarely mentions his corporate affiliations.
    • He gets “butts in the seats.”  His Webinars, seminars, etc. are highly attended and people know that when they go to listen to him, they’re going to something out of it.

    2. Bruce Schneir: I was a consultant for a long time at Counterpane, a security-outsourcing company Bruce founded.  He is a highly requested speaker, writer, and interview.  People used to call the main line just hoping to speak with him. That is one of my first experiences  seeing thought leadership work.  Bruce is the embodiment of this quote from Brian’s post, credited to Dana VanDen Heuvel from MarketingProfs:

Become a thought leader in your field and it won’t matter as much how big you are. Companies and people will look to you for insight and vision. Journalists will quote you, analysts will call you, and websites will link to you.

You have to do thought leadership right, end of story.  You can’t pretend to provide educational content or thought leadership.  If you look salesy, you’re selling. People DO NOT FALL FOR THAT. For instance, at the 2009 Sales 2.0 Knowledge Share Conferencee last week, the first set of presentations were all supposed to be about Sales 2.0 techniques. Instead, they were not-so-well-disguised sales pitches for companies like Hoovers and Inside View.  The feedback in the halls was not so good.  The program probably got better, but what I saw and the reactions I heard scream my point loud and clear: Buyers pay (in time or even money) if they can learn something that will help them do better in their jobs.  B2B buyers can smell a rat, so do it right.

This quote from Brian’s post says it all:

People have a natural “BS” meter. We can sense when someone is just trying to sound smart rather than be authentic. Most of us can recognize a charlatan, one who pontificates about their expertise only to pitch us. These so-called thought leaders are only just trying to edify themselves.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter

LinkedIn Street Cred and Cover Letter Mishaps: What I Learned While Recruiting a Marketing Contractor

It’s amazing — after a couple weeks of writer’s block, I’m back to finding something to write about every day.  Right now, my company is recruiting a marketing contractor which triggered some Funnelholic-type thoughts.

1.      If you’re not on LinkedIn, you’re not trying. It’s amazing to think LinkedIn is roughly 5 years old.  Now, the first thing any self-respecting recruiter does is check candidates out on LinkedIn and vice versa — if someone has an interview with a recruiter or other company representative, he or she looks them up on LinkedIn.  So, as I’m reviewing marketing contractor résumés, I can’t believe some applicants have the nerve to not be on LinkedIn, have incomplete profiles or only have six friends.  That’s not to say I eliminated anyone because of this, but it’s pretty surprising considering the prevalence of LinkedIn, particularly in the marketing realm.

Face it: Employers almost always consider the following on LinkedIn.  Here are some observations:

  • Your connections: Sorry, it’s true.  Being wired is an ADVANTAGE.
  • Your profile: But only just a bit.  For marketing jobs, LinkedIn is a test on how you market yourself.
  • Your groups: This is a great way to gain credibility and show you are “in the know.”

2.     It’s not a very good idea to misspell, especially when you’re applying for a copywriting job. Caveat: I misspell ALL the time, but I’m the Funnelholic and I’m not trying to get a job with you.  In general, spelling errors stand out, and not in a good way.  You might not think it matters much. But, if you’re applying for a job involving copywriting, that’s a big no-no.

3.    The economy sucks. I’m seeing too many candidates with lots of experience. I’ve only put one post on craigslist.org and I already have an inbox full of résumés.

4.    Good copywriters are hard to find. Enough said.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter

Memo to the CFO: 3 Lead Generation Metrics That Matter

In every interview or conversation I have with marketers, one question always arises: What metrics should lead generation be judged by?  I always answer with the same responses:

1.    Lead-to-opportunity conversion: For every lead you buy, how many turn into sales opportunities.

2.    Cost per opportunity: Instead of CPL (more on this below), calculate the lead-generation costs and divide by sales opportunities created.  This should include your lead development/qualification costs and nurturing costs.

3.    Total pipeline created: How much sales pipeline has been created by your leads?

If this makes sense, maybe  I should address why I don’t recommend CPL (cost per lead) or ROI (return on investment) as metrics:

  • CPL: Bragging about your average CPL is fine, but if it keeps you from higher-converting — albeit more expensive — leads, then you’re missing the boat. CPL should be a by-product of cost-per-opportunity. If a lead is converting, then you should be willing to invest more. Conversely, you may be buying leads for lower than anyone else, but your cost per opportunity is the same or higher because of the expenses and time it takes to convert them. Repeat after me: CPO, not CPL.
  • ROI: ROI is defined as lead-to-closed business.  I get it:  you have to track this. (If you do, make sure you are tracking ROI over a sufficient period of time — probably two to three months after typical sales cycles.)But ultimately, I argue against this metric. It’s simple when you consider it in terms of baseball: Alex Rodgriguez is one of the best players in baseball because he does his job — he fields well, hits home runs, creates runs, etc.  He has not been on a team that has won the World Series. Yet he will still get paid one of the highest salaries in baseball and will still likely win the MVP award. That’s my point: we all play to win (in business, by getting revenue), but everyone has to play well to get the win.  The marketing reps should be judged by whether they did their job, which in this case is creating pipeline. The sales team’s job is to close that business. Once marketing creates an opportunity, sales must execute in order to create revenue. The net-net: if marketers creates the pipeline, they have done their job and should be judged accordingly.

There you have it.  I’m open for debate.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter

If You’re On Time, You’re Late: Why You Need to Beat the Buyer to the RFP

I don’t have the exact quote, but last week at the 2009 Sales 2.0 Knowledge Share Conference, I heard Rich Blakeman, VP of sales at Miller Heiman, say something to the extent of, “We want to get to the prospect before he creates his RFP.” I wanted to get up and applaud not only because I agree with him, but also because I had been meaning to write about this forever. I first got the inspiration when I was meeting with the VP of sales from one of our blue-chip  (top 5 technology company) customers.  He told me how he preferred not to get leads when they had their project already defined.  He preferred to get them earlier so that his team could shape the content of the project or RFP.  This was a big-time company with a big-time sales team. Another customer loved being in early and providing clients with questions to ask vendors, knowing those questions would position his company ahead of the competition.

So, the lesson is: Getting leads early will help you later on. Here are five tips to help you efficiently stay ahead of the RFP:

1. Lead nurturing: GROUNDHOG DAY! I keep saying this over and over, but it’s important. It’s one thing to have sales keep following up with someone before the sales cycle. It’s another thing to have marketing help in this process. You can’t stay in front of the RFP and succeed if sales owns the prospect from so early on. You need to continue to market to the prospect via email with a variety of different educational offers.

2. Sales nurturing: Following the above: If we want sales to get to prospects early, you have to have a process to allow sales to put these prospects back into the nurturing cycle. For most processes today, once sales get the lead, it is owned by sales.  Success is dependent on sales dropping voice mails and “checking in” for months. Instead, let sales do their preso and if it’s early, score the lead appropriately and have marketing keep the prospect warm.

3. Relevant, “early-funnel” content: I love whitepaper offers like “Creating an RFP,” and “25 Questions to Ask Potential XXX Vendors.”  This is pre-RFP content that helps sales shape the project in your company’s favor.

4. Looser BANT (Budget, Authority, Need, Time frame): I get why BANT is hot again, and I support it. Just don’t forget that it is worth pitching a client when all he or she has is the “A” (authority) and the “N” (need), even if it is latent need. And get sales involved early. As mentioned in the second tip, sales can recycle leads back into the buying cycle and your organization will not lose track of the potential opportunity.

5. Web conferencing, Webinars and the rise of telepresence: You don’t have to hop on a plane to meet potential customers.  Use Web conferencing to get to the pre-RFP client without the time and expense of travel.

Craig Rosenberg is the Funnelholic. He loves sales, marketing, and things that drive revenue. Follow him on Google+ or Twitter